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slink 392646 48 Can somebody explain...? either
Can somebody explain...?
OK, we discussed this issue on our domestic agriculture forum, but I'm not pleased with the results of the discussion.

The issue is: In this picture there can be seen a reversible plough with just one hydraulic hose attached to it. It doesn't have any kind of manifold to distribute the oil to succesfully turn the plough. We came to a conclusion that the manifold is integrated in the hydraulic cylinder.

The question is: Can someone explain to me how does this system work? I never worked with a reversible plough, but every wich one I saw had two hoses for turning, and I can understand that system, but this is new to me, and I'm confused a bit...

Help, please!
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
It is just a double working valve?
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
I don't know what it is. It's not my plough.

All i know is that the hose has to be connected to the trailor tipping outlet (one way outlet)

I'm trying to find out how does this thing work. I don't know how does a doubble valve work...

Ok, if the hose was connected at each side of the cylinder, I could understand that, but over here the hose is connected only to one side of the cylinder... That's why I'm asking about this, because it is supposed to be connected to a one way outlet, and only to one side of the cylinder, and the plough doesnt seem to have any kind of manifold to redistribute the oil to turn the plough...
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
ne da mi se razmisljati na hrvaskom pa sve to prevoditi na engleski, a i ovako ces sve razumjeti o cemu se radi.. znaci cilindar podize donji plug do odredjene tocke gdje prebacuje ventil i sada taj isti cilindar pritisce prema dolje .da bi to ponistio moras iskljuciti dovod ulja i ventil se kompjutorskim rijecnikom resetira na ponovno dizanje. ima jos jedan stariji sistem gdje ti hidraulikom samo podizes plug do odredjene tocke i onda se dalje on sam zaokrece, na taj princip su radili i plugovi s rucnim preokretanjem. jedini problem je ako ti se nakupi trava ili zemlja pa onda nema pravilne raspodjele tezine.
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
Ok...

Malo mi cudno, posto ne vidim da se igdje takav ventil/razdjelnik nalazi, a nit vidim da je ulje spojeno na drugi kraj cilindra...

Zato mi bilo cudno...

Hvala na objasnjenju, ali meni to nekako cudno... Zasto onda nisu svi plugovi preko jednog crijeva i gotovo?
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
I can't understand the latest posts, so maybe you have the solution.

As I see the problem, it must be a single acting cylinder with any type of feather making the return action.

It is impossible to use a valve or any manifold to make a cylinder double acting with only single hose connection. You must take care of the return oil in some way.
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
Leenart: frabrne said that when you lift the plough up it turnsto a certain point, and then the valve flips the oil way, and the plough makes the complete turn. When the pressure in the hose drops, the doubble acting valve resets itself, and when you lift the plough all is happenning again...

I wrote that it was weirt to me, because i never seen this kind of plough, and asked him why aren't all ploughs made in this way if it works? All new ploughs have two hoses for turning...

I thank you for your idea, and I'm trying to get to the solution myself, abut i can't...

Maybe when I lift the plough, it turns half way, and when the oil pressure drops, it turns the whole way using its weight, but that would be too slow...

I don't know, that's why I asked you...

Annybody else?
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
"Malo mi cudno, posto ne vidim da se igdje takav ventil/razdjelnik nalazi, a nit vidim da je ulje spojeno na drugi kraj cilindra."

onda ti radi na ovom starijem principu , a zasto svi plugovi tak ne rade imas gore odgovor tj. nista nesmije poremetiti pravilnu raspodjelu tezine - ravnotezu, i plus toga da je to dosta sporije. jedino sto sam zaboravio kod ovog starijeg sistemanapisa da kad podignes plug tada zatvoris dovod ulja - kao kod kipanja kad spustas dolje.
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
hellow,

you must have a doubble working valve for turning the plough , always 2 valves.

sorry fot my bad english

greets
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
It works.
There is no valve.
oil presure moves plow to one side.
release valve on tracktor plow fals (turns by weight)
when passes center,(dead point) add oil presure to turn to other side.
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
Ok, i don't get this last explanation...

maybe you meant to say that oil pressure turns the plough half way, and the plough weight turns it the other half.

If the oil pressure turns it the plough the other half way, then there MUST be a vlave of some kind...
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
ajd procitaj jos jedanput oba dva moja posta imas objasnjenje za oba sistema koju rade na jednostruki prikljucak. a mogao si odmah napisati da plug nema ventil (kocku) pa bi ti napisao objasnjenje samo za taj princip rada.
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
i have absolutely no idee how it works, but i know dat Lemken also uses the same system
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
OK, citam i gledam, ali ne kuzim zasto je crijevo od ulja spojeno na gornji dio cilindra (kad ulje ulazi u njega, cilindar se isteze), Sad mi objasni kako to radi, i kako se plug dize...

To mene muci, jer ocito je da ulje sluzi da spusta plug, a ne da ga dize pri okretanju...
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
it's a pertty simple system.
you press oil with your tractor, the plough tips over (just to half way, but because of the swing a little bit overtipped to the other side) then the ''oil valve'' don't know the wright word in english that is on top of the cilinder mostly changes from position 1 to position 2 so the oil goes to the other way of the cilinder and pushes back out.
i have a course of ploughs with drawings of the hydraulic systems of plows but it's in the atic in boxes so ... if really neccesery i would look it up.

but this is the way I think the system is like

best regards
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
Hey, Degryse.

It would be excellent to show some drawings so I can see how it works...

I thank you in advance for letting us know that oil is used both ways in the cylinder. At least one of us knows something for sure.

frabrne maybe said that, but I couldn't quite get it.

Degryse, you explained the best till now... I begin to understand the system...

Maybe your drawings show where oil goes from one side of cylinder, when the valve is pushing oil to the other side...

This is a very confusing system... :-\
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
[qout]Ok, i don't get this last explanation...

maybe you meant to say that oil pressure turns the plough half way, and the plough weight turns it the other half.

If the oil pressure turns it the plough the other half way, then there MUST be a vlave of some kind...
[/qout]

nearly
the valve is the stick on the tracktor

From working position:
Take oil presure from plough
plough starts to turn by weight and oil returns to tracktor
When cylinder passes te center. the farmer moves stick on tracktor. Oil returns to cylinder. and pushes plough to working position
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
2x
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
[quot]oil valve on top of the cilinder mostly changes from position 1 to position 2
[/quot]

This is the explanation of a 2 hydraulic oil hose system

On a 1 hydraulic oil hose system you only nead oil presure to put the plough in working position
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
I'll give the explenation with it ( i think its this system basically):
when you give oil pressure with the tractor the oil pressure will go to the lowest part of the cilinder so it will go up (plow tips over just a little more than 90°)
the oil from the highest part of the cilinder goes into the accumulator (don't know the wright word) becaus of the triangle on the cilinder there is an open circuit realised so the pressure that is held in the accumulator is released and the cilinder goes down again because surface A1 is larger than surface A2

clear now? if i'm wright that is
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
I understand your scheme, and that will function if the plough by the working weight turns over, but after reading Bobo's posts and looking at his picture, there is either any valve or accumulator on the cylinder. And the hose seems to be connected to the +-side (a1 in your scheme).:-\??:-\
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
@degryse Your and mine explinations are wright.
your system works automatic (no mistake in turn)
mine works bij hand (farmer has to switch at the write time, If he is to late/to soon plow returns to starting position an he has to tray again)(mistake in turn)

(het hangt dus van de handigheid van de chaufeur af of hij de ploeg en een keer kan keren of in 2 keer, mijn systeem lijkt veel op het meganische kantel systeem (trek aan hendel en laat ploeg door zijn gewicht om klappen) In mijn systeem word cilinder gebruikt om de ploeg dus weer in werk positie de drukken)
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
Thanks Degryse! I understand your system, but if you look at my picture of the plough, you will notice that thr connecting hose is connected to the top side of the cylinder.

In your scheme it's connected to the lower side, and that makes sense.

The system you explained has an acumulator (reservoir) somewhere on the plough most possibly the lincage part is hollow). the two system hose uses the same system except the reservoir is in the tractor...

@prullen: This is a plough meant to be hitched to a one-way outlet, so you can control ONLY exit pressure of oil from the tractor, and nothing else... The system you described uses a two-way outlets...

I will try to sleep over on this, and let you know when i find out how it works...

Maybe I will even call the owner of the plough, and simply ask him...

Thansk for helpping, and if somebody has any suggestions, they are welcome!
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
i have a suggestion:
buy a plough with 2 hose commands i think its better
also al the big constructors use 2hose systems...
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Re: Can somebody explain...?
I don't have two-way hydraulic connections on my little tractor :-(

That's the problem...

I'm calculating what's better: 2x12" reversible, or 3x10 conventional, and most of the points go toward conventional plough... If I had two way outlets, i wouldn't think a secont, i would take a 2x12" reversible...

But considering this reversible plough is a big pain in the neck, i will most probabbly go with conventional plough, and that's that.
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